Push ifs up and fors down: The idiom, its algebra, and its limits

(debasishg.github.io)

65 points | by speckx 3 hours ago

10 comments

  • socializer 2 hours ago
    I am continually impressed by the ability of LLMs to take trivial ideas and turn them into lengthy and obtuse blog posts with unnecessary analogies.
    • swiftcoder 2 hours ago
      Honestly, this just looks like one of those lingo-heavy-but-surface-level blog posts that used to make functional programming spaces so insufferable to everyone on the outside
      • mahboi 1 hour ago
        These things are so divorced from the reality of programming, even when they involve actual code instead of fancy lingo. Like in Scala, not a pure functional language, tutorials used to find the most convoluted higher-order functional way to do simple things.
    • bioneuralnet 2 hours ago
      Yet another encroachment on traditionally human activity.
      • moritzwarhier 2 hours ago
        I am the

          Option<Walrus>
        • msdz 38 minutes ago
          I know we’re not supposed to comment just for that, but this might be my single favorite joke comment I’ve ever read here. Good job.
      • jibalt 31 minutes ago
        Except that TFA is a bog standard example of traditional human activity and the GP's comment is nonsensical trolling.
    • jampekka 13 minutes ago
      I'm continually impressed by the ability of humans to spam low-effort whining about suspected LLM writing in almost every HN thread.
      • socializer 10 minutes ago
        It's an LLM-generated article.
        • jampekka 1 minute ago
          How do you know? Doesn't read particularly LLM written to me, and even if it is, it's quite well written.

          The author has been blogging about this kind of stuff for over 20 years. I'd be surprised if they suddenly let bots autonomously start to spam their blog.

  • gorgoiler 21 minutes ago
    Erm, no? You write f(w: Walrus) -> Walrus and then let the caller handle Walrus|None and Iterable[Walrus] however they wish!

    And if someone decides the codebase needs an abstraction over (and therefore specific functions to handle) Iterable[Walrus|None] then you check the weather and suggest they take a break and go for a stroll. (You check the weather to see if you should lend them your brolly.)

    What am I missing?

  • ninalanyon 1 hour ago
    I've done this for years. Not every time of course but where it makes the code easier to understand and maintain.

    Speed was almost never the reason.

    • alterom 1 hour ago
      I take it you never rewrote a Matlab for loop as a vector/matrix op for insane speedups then :)
  • wallstop 1 hour ago
    What is missing here is any benchmarks backing up this argument for code structure.

    Of note, as of C#9 (and maybe prior), the dotnet runtime does this automatically whenever it is deemed safe. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/performance-improvemen...

    The same technique is applied as an optimization, when deemed safe, in all current gen c compilers (gcc, llvm, etc).

    I'm very confused why neither measurements nor references to when this is done automatically in most modern languages is included in the article.

    • Maxatar 21 minutes ago
      Can't speak for C# but in C/C++ the optimization can rarely be applied safely due to aliasing. If any part of the data you're working with involves a char* then C/C++ optimizers refrain from doing these kinds of optimizations because of how difficult it is to guarantee the absence of mutability.
    • cogman10 1 hour ago
      At least in JVM land, it's pretty easy to thwart that optimization. Particularly if the condition is on a mutable yet unchanged in the loop value.

      For example:

          var map = new HashMap<String, String>();
          map.put("foo", "bar");
          for (var i : items) {
            if ("bar".equals(map.get("foo")) {
              doStuff(i);
            }
          }
      
      Even though `map` isn't mutated, it's hard enough for the JVM to detect and the underlying `get` functions are complex enough that it'll run the `get("foo")` every time, which can be quiet expensive.
  • throwawayffffas 41 minutes ago
    Just the branch predictor gains are probably worth it.
  • dieselgate 1 hour ago
    Didn’t see it mentioned in the article but isn’t leading with if-statement called a “guard clause”. I like that pattern but it’s just general best practice I thought.
  • aappleby 1 hour ago
    I have always phrased this as "Never do one of something".
  • OutOfHere 1 hour ago
    I like it, but to do fizzbuzz in this way, you'd have to separate what's inside the loop into a reused function.
  • alterom 1 hour ago
    TL;DR in one sentence:

    "the loop runs without a branch, and is a candidate for vectorization".

    That's it, that's the article. This matters a lot in huge-scale / scientific computing / HPF, where if you can express something as an operation on vectors on matrices, you win big (those ops parallelize well, can be run on GPUs, clusters, what have you).

  • apefulsin 1 hour ago
    [dead]